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Food For Thought !

I get so sick and tired of army fans thinking that we can't have both a good football team, and good players. Look no further than navy and (until recently) air force. And, it annoys me to no end when we have fans that think that every stinking kid walking in the door must instantly want to be a 2LT and a career soldier.

As Alec Lee said, the reason our football team sucks for so long is institutional apathy. We got a bunch of grads and fans that go up to players after a 42-3 ass whupping and say stupid things like "good job" or "hey you got bigger battles to fight down the road". I"ve personally sat next to players when this happened. Too many don't seem to give a crap.

We seem (read: SEEM) to have a coach who gets it, a supe who gets it, a comm who gets it, and a dean who gets it. In my opinion, this probably hasn't happened in 6 or 7 decades. So lets see how this plays out over the next few years
 
Originally posted by goarmyfan:
DocJayy :
Thank you ! for hitting the nail on the head. The people that subscribe to this website should keep in m,ind this is not just Army Football but West Point Football. It is a lot different than any other College in the nation not just to play football but to get the education that you came here for. "THE PRIMARY reason for coming to West Point is not to go to professional football but get the best education you can, Serve Honor and Protect your Country all the while you have some fun and play division 1 football.

Anyone seeking to play professional football should be going to a college football powerhouse like Alabama, Ohio State, or Florida State to seek their dream of being a professional football player.

West Point is a place for Leaders of Men to enjoy playing the game of football in what free time they have.
And people wonder why we can't (WIN) no games! If you believe this game is to be looked upon as "just having some fun while your here" WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY PLAY TO WIN? If it's being shut down from the inside, mentally... GAF is speaking words of many and what they truly believe. How can we win if you don't take it serious? And your making the players feel, your just doing it for (enjoyment) fun!!!!! Have fun on your free time , while your here… (WOW) that's a real slap in the face….
Century this is where the conflict of entrance is, Monken is here to do just what he set out to do "WIN", but will it work the way "HE" wants it to be done... yes we will see!!!!



This post was edited on 6/24 11:37 PM by Bulletproof09
 
Originally posted by centuryman:
I get so sick and tired of army fans thinking that we can't have both a good football team, and good players. Look no further than navy and (until recently) air force. And, it annoys me to no end when we have fans that think that every stinking kid walking in the door must instantly want to be a 2LT and a career soldier.

As Alec Lee said, the reason our football team sucks for so long is institutional apathy. We got a bunch of grads and fans that go up to players after a 42-3 ass whupping and say stupid things like "good job" or "hey you got bigger battles to fight down the road". I"ve personally sat next to players when this happened. Too many don't seem to give a crap.

We seem (read: SEEM) to have a coach who gets it, a supe who gets it, a comm who gets it, and a dean who gets it. In my opinion, this probably hasn't happened in 6 or 7 decades. So lets see how this plays out over the next few years
I don't recall on single fan saying that we can't have both.
 
Originally posted by Bulletproof09:

Originally posted by goarmyfan:
DocJayy :
Thank you ! for hitting the nail on the head. The people that subscribe to this website should keep in m,ind this is not just Army Football but West Point Football. It is a lot different than any other College in the nation not just to play football but to get the education that you came here for. "THE PRIMARY reason for coming to West Point is not to go to professional football but get the best education you can, Serve Honor and Protect your Country all the while you have some fun and play division 1 football.

Anyone seeking to play professional football should be going to a college football powerhouse like Alabama, Ohio State, or Florida State to seek their dream of being a professional football player.

West Point of leadersht is a place for Leaders of Men to enjoy playing the game of football in what free time they have.
I understand that being the primary reason, come on guys that goes without saying... But still trying to understand "why" they can't have more then 1 primary goals here? I get (all) the ones who been here before, understands that to the fullest. You have been conditioned to feel this way to complete the assignment (understandable) But what I'm seeing more and more is after Campbell did what he done as far going to the NFL it opened the door to more possibilities if wished... And whats happening now with Anderson, McNary, Villanueva, Mooney, even Steelman, and our future hopefuls. That even with what they have done for the service, its something they wanted to do.... Even tho you say they are only here to enjoy the game, its more to it then that. You guys understand winning is a huge part of "leadership" . Its more then "enjoyment" its "fulfillment", which stays with them til its done.... Yes I believe West Point has help developed that in them, I truly understand that. And it should be imposed upon them that its very important too when being recruited, we would be "winning" more games.... One should not be seen as less important, just my opinion on the matter...

This post was edited on 6/23 2:00 PM by Bulletproof09
You can't have more than one primary goal. That's why it's PRIMARY.
 
Originally posted by TheNewBlackKnights09:

Originally posted by centuryman:
I get so sick and tired of army fans thinking that we can't have both a good football team, and good players. Look no further than navy and (until recently) air force. And, it annoys me to no end when we have fans that think that every stinking kid walking in the door must instantly want to be a 2LT and a career soldier.

As Alec Lee said, the reason our football team sucks for so long is institutional apathy. We got a bunch of grads and fans that go up to players after a 42-3 ass whupping and say stupid things like "good job" or "hey you got bigger battles to fight down the road". I"ve personally sat next to players when this happened. Too many don't seem to give a crap.

We seem (read: SEEM) to have a coach who gets it, a supe who gets it, a comm who gets it, and a dean who gets it. In my opinion, this probably hasn't happened in 6 or 7 decades. So lets see how this plays out over the next few years
I don't recall on single fan saying that we can't have both.
I believe that was a in general statement (IMO) however giving what was said, and the track record of failing speaks for itself, with the pass level of supporting the team for success....

Honestly respect the fact that some have the heart to say how they feel about the football program, rather I agree or not..... Do I believe its shifting in another direction of belief, yes I do. From the Supe and Boo, now if the the rest of the people get on board whoever that might be, I truly see this program moving.... I want to see the football be more then just a fun pass time, it should be just as important as anything else in this school, and should be executed in that manner on all angles...

This post was edited on 6/25 11:14 AM by Bulletproof09
 
Originally posted by douglas macarthur:

Originally posted by Bulletproof09:

Originally posted by goarmyfan:
DocJayy :
Thank you ! for hitting the nail on the head. The people that subscribe to this website should keep in m,ind this is not just Army Football but West Point Football. It is a lot different than any other College in the nation not just to play football but to get the education that you came here for. "THE PRIMARY reason for coming to West Point is not to go to professional football but get the best education you can, Serve Honor and Protect your Country all the while you have some fun and play division 1 football.

Anyone seeking to play professional football should be going to a college football powerhouse like Alabama, Ohio State, or Florida State to seek their dream of being a professional football player.

West Point of leadersht is a place for Leaders of Men to enjoy playing the game of football in what free time they have.
I understand that being the primary reason, come on guys that goes without saying... But still trying to understand "why" they can't have more then 1 primary goals here? I get (all) the ones who been here before, understands that to the fullest. You have been conditioned to feel this way to complete the assignment (understandable) But what I'm seeing more and more is after Campbell did what he done as far going to the NFL it opened the door to more possibilities if wished... And whats happening now with Anderson, McNary, Villanueva, Mooney, even Steelman, and our future hopefuls. That even with what they have done for the service, its something they wanted to do.... Even tho you say they are only here to enjoy the game, its more to it then that. You guys understand winning is a huge part of "leadership" . Its more then "enjoyment" its "fulfillment", which stays with them til its done.... Yes I believe West Point has help developed that in them, I truly understand that. And it should be imposed upon them that its very important too when being recruited, we would be "winning" more games.... One should not be seen as less important, just my opinion on the matter...

This post was edited on 6/23 2:00 PM by Bulletproof09
You can't have more than one primary goal. That's why it's PRIMARY.
"Primary" most important, but I personally have more then one "Primary" in life priorities.... Its makes you a successful well rounded person... Anything that you put your hands on with any kind of seriousness of good will add to your life, should be done with the greatest ability. It says what kind of person you are, it gives you character! And should be supported in a positive way, not shoot down to feed your ego of what you think it should be like.... Even to say if the NFL is what you want, then you shouldn't come here..... Every successful football player up to the point of college "primary" goal is to go to the NFL.... however some come into college with the belief of wanting both education and career and some don't.... But is that your decision to make for them with recruiting them for this program? Is that fair to make them feel some kind of way because they are what you recruited as "football" players first. As Century spoke on institutional apathy, that rings bells here... It has to change its been going on to long.... I have been to tailgates on the grounds talking to some of the hard core alumni's, who truly don't take it as a priority... that's fine it their right! But to act like you do, when really you don't????????? hmmmmmmmm WHY?
 
Originally posted by douglas macarthur:
Many, perhaps most, college football players have a primary goal other than the NFL.
Agreed!!!! But is that the correct thing to say to players that's thinking about coming to your "program" If the NFL is what you want, then this isn't the place for you! When your trying to compete on a D1 status! Is that what you call supporting your football program by saying those words that will knock a good athlete off their feet. Not giving them the chance to come and see whats its hitting for first! Is it turning good players like Carr away, who would have came and learned what it means to go to this school an embrace the possibilities with success, we will never know...

This post was edited on 6/25 12:39 PM by Bulletproof09
 
A lot of people on the web site think because they are in the Military their opinion is only the right Opinion.
This is a site for ARMY FOOTBALL ! Not the Academy ! if this kind of attitude continues nobody will want to be on this site . It is getting so stupid, we are talking about football not the Academy and life after football.
You want to take the dreams of these young men away. Many have dreamt about playing D ! College football since they were in Little league football and all you want to due is shoot their dears down.
It is important for Military men to be the best that they can be but when all you do is say nothing but ARMY life is ARMY life and nothing else matters, you have crossed the line.
We all= live our lives in the moment and to be the best we can it whatever we do and this website is just getting carried away from it's intent.
Lighten up, talk football and have some fun. Lets leave the Heavy Army stuff off the field and enjoy ARMY Football.
 
Originally posted by goarmyfan:
A lot of people on the web site think because they are in the Military their opinion is only the right Opinion.
This is a site for ARMY FOOTBALL ! Not the Academy ! if this kind of attitude continues nobody will want to be on this site . It is getting so stupid, we are talking about football not the Academy and life after football.
You want to take the dreams of these young men away. Many have dreamt about playing D ! College football since they were in Little league football and all you want to due is shoot their dears down.
It is important for Military men to be the best that they can be but when all you do is say nothing but ARMY life is ARMY life and nothing else matters, you have crossed the line.
We all= live our lives in the moment and to be the best we can it whatever we do and this website is just getting carried away from it's intent.
Lighten up, talk football and have some fun. Lets leave the Heavy Army stuff off the field and enjoy ARMY Football.
AMEN BROTHER!!!!!'

which IMO, is why we have all these people on this site and won't post out of fear they might say something wrong. And get backlash from it, so they don't post.... As many as subscribers as this site have every year, talking about 1000s... Why we only have a hand full of regular posters, that should tell you something. ... At what point do we stop the attack, and really make this site something to be proud of, as showing a 100% " ARMY FOOTBALL " support.

This is a (football) site! Please let's keep it in context here!
GBK does a wonderful job talking about the football stuff...
Honestly speaking I have no clue about the military piece of it... but I'm on here to discuss Army football, seriously. Can we get behind GBK and the team .. let the military piece of it take care of itself. .. I'm just saying
This post was edited on 6/27 9:41 AM by Bulletproof09
 
We want those studs and 3 to 4 star players to come to our D1 program... stop telling them their skills aren't welcomed here, so to speak! Get them in the door teach and show them what life they can have other then football like you do the ones who stay. Don't discriminate, appreciate
 
Originally posted by Bulletproof09:
We want those studs and 3 to 4 star players to come to our D1 program... stop telling them their skills aren't welcomed here, so to speak! Get them in the door teach and show them what life they can have other then football like you do the ones who stay. Don't discriminate, appreciate
One of your best post Bulletproof09!
 
Originally posted by Armyrusher22:

Originally posted by Bulletproof09:
We want those studs and 3 to 4 star players to come to our D1 program... stop telling them their skills aren't welcomed here, so to speak! Get them in the door teach and show them what life they can have other then football like you do the ones who stay. Don't discriminate, appreciate
One of your best post Bulletproof09!
LOL
 
Originally posted by Armyrusher22:

Originally posted by Bulletproof09:
We want those studs and 3 to 4 star players to come to our D1 program... stop telling them their skills aren't welcomed here, so to speak! Get them in the door teach and show them what life they can have other then football like you do the ones who stay. Don't discriminate, appreciate
One of your best post Bulletproof09!
Thanks! Which I think we really need to get pass this on the board. .. Specially cause we trying move forward supporting the team in a more productive manner... plus I can't wait for the moment when we have more people in on the conversations (thread).... we got to promote too!
3dgrin.r191677.gif
 
More food for thought from the Big Ten

I think we can all agree that the student-athlete model of intercollegiate athletics has become distorted over the past several decades, and it's also fairly apparent that the Service Academies' sports programs have lost status in the process, The rapid growth in professional sports has shifted the student-athlete balance away from student and toward athletic performance especially in the revenue producing sports of football and baseball. The service academies, because of their unique missions, have not been able to adjust as well to this change in priorities for a lot of athletes.

The recent lawsuit at Northwestern and aftershock news coming out of UConn highlighted the trend toward de facto professionalization of college football and basketball at many larger institutions, and college presidents who were pacified by the revenue flow, are paying more attention to the consequences of their benign neglect;

Recently the Big Ten released a statement outlining plans to tip the balance back in the direction of the student side of the student-athlete model.

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/062414aaa.html

It's a start, but there are additional value distortions that were highlighted in the NWU case that need to be addressed as well. The claims of 60 hour per week commitments to football activities certainly mock the NCAA rules that limit accountable athletic activities to 20 hours per week during the season and 8 hours out of season. The claims of some athletes that they were denied opportunities to take classes they wanted to take toward their chosen field speaks volumes to the priorities that athletic programs have put in place in those institutions.

I'm perhaps more of an idealist than a realist when it comes to college sports, but I welcome any action by the university presidents to restore the educational commitment that has been lost for many athletes.

One thing that distinguishes Service Academy athletics from those of most civilian institutions (other than the Ivy League) is that we do not give out athletic scholarships, and we require all of our athletes to participate fully in the coursework and other activities that are required to become a highly qualified officer in the armed services. Every cadet and midshipman receives the same scholarship based on the same obligations, whether they're an athlete or not. Every cadet and midshipmen who successfully completes the 4 year course of study at an SA will be commissioned as an officer in the armed forces That's just a statement of reality. A small handful of SA athletes are able to pursue sports at a professional level providing that it does not detract from their service obligation. In addition to the three players in the NFL, we have graduates who have participated in professional baseball and professional lacrosse, and Navy even has a guy playing in the PGA, but only as their service commitments allowed.

The lead post in this thread states a logical position that is echoed in the statement released by the Big Ten affirming that the priority of educational institutions should be education, and that the institutions have an obligation to prepare their students for life beyond sports. That position is echoed in the recent statement released by the Big Ten.

No doubt Army loses a few highly skilled athletes every year because of the service obligation and that's no doubt true for AFA and Navy as well, but we also attract a few athletes (and parents) who recognize that the service commitment can be an opportunity rather than an obligation. If that high school wants more than anything to play professional sports, then the SA route is not the best route to take.
 
Re: More food for thought from the Big Ten


Originally posted by goodknight65:
I think we can all agree that the student-athlete model of intercollegiate athletics has become distorted over the past several decades, and it's also fairly apparent that the Service Academies' sports programs have lost status in the process, The rapid growth in professional sports has shifted the student-athlete balance away from student and toward athletic performance especially in the revenue producing sports of football and baseball. The service academies, because of their unique missions, have not been able to adjust as well to this change in priorities for a lot of athletes.

The recent lawsuit at Northwestern and aftershock news coming out of UConn highlighted the trend toward de facto professionalization of college football and basketball at many larger institutions, and college presidents who were pacified by the revenue flow, are paying more attention to the consequences of their benign neglect;

Recently the Big Ten released a statement outlining plans to tip the balance back in the direction of the student side of the student-athlete model.

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/062414aaa.html

It's a start, but there are additional value distortions that were highlighted in the NWU case that need to be addressed as well. The claims of 60 hour per week commitments to football activities certainly mock the NCAA rules that limit accountable athletic activities to 20 hours per week during the season and 8 hours out of season. The claims of some athletes that they were denied opportunities to take classes they wanted to take toward their chosen field speaks volumes to the priorities that athletic programs have put in place in those institutions.

I'm perhaps more of an idealist than a realist when it comes to college sports, but I welcome any action by the university presidents to restore the educational commitment that has been lost for many athletes.

One thing that distinguishes Service Academy athletics from those of most civilian institutions (other than the Ivy League) is that we do not give out athletic scholarships, and we require all of our athletes to participate fully in the coursework and other activities that are required to become a highly qualified officer in the armed services. Every cadet and midshipman receives the same scholarship based on the same obligations, whether they're an athlete or not. Every cadet and midshipmen who successfully completes the 4 year course of study at an SA will be commissioned as an officer in the armed forces That's just a statement of reality. A small handful of SA athletes are able to pursue sports at a professional level providing that it does not detract from their service obligation. In addition to the three players in the NFL, we have graduates who have participated in professional baseball and professional lacrosse, and Navy even has a guy playing in the PGA, but only as their service commitments allowed.

The lead post in this thread states a logical position that is echoed in the statement released by the Big Ten affirming that the priority of educational institutions should be education, and that the institutions have an obligation to prepare their students for life beyond sports. That position is echoed in the recent statement released by the Big Ten.

No doubt Army loses a few highly skilled athletes every year because of the service obligation and that's no doubt true for AFA and Navy as well, (((( but we also attract a few athletes (and parents) who recognize that the service commitment can be an opportunity rather than an obligation. ))) If that high school wants more than anything to play professional sports, then the SA route is not the best route to take.
Well said Good!
 
Originally posted by centuryman:
I get so sick and tired of army fans thinking that we can't have both a good football team, and good players. Look no further than navy and (until recently) air force. And, it annoys me to no end when we have fans that think that every stinking kid walking in the door must instantly want to be a 2LT and a career soldier.

As Alec Lee said, the reason our football team sucks for so long is institutional apathy. We got a bunch of grads and fans that go up to players after a 42-3 ass whupping and say stupid things like "good job" or "hey you got bigger battles to fight down the road". I"ve personally sat next to players when this happened. Too many don't seem to give a crap.

We seem (read: SEEM) to have a coach who gets it, a supe who gets it, a comm who gets it, and a dean who gets it. In my opinion, this probably hasn't happened in 6 or 7 decades. So lets see how this plays out over the next few years
Well said, Centuryman!
 
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