POLL: What is the country's sporting pastime?
- Thread starter DocJayy
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It surely isn't baseball which IMO is a dying sport that is too slow for this current generation of young folks. As a matter of fact, there are very few African American that even play the sport anymore and the league is mostly Hispanic, who actually come from the Latin countries and not even the United States.
The pace of all the other sports have left MLB in the dust.
The pace of all the other sports have left MLB in the dust.
I would like to think that fans are responding objectively, just as many do when talking about the Army football program. Every post hear is not a "cheerleading" post when discussing the program and I personally believe baseball is on the down swing.
What say you?
Pro Football rules the polls (followed by college). However some other reasons the game is popular is gambling and fantasy football. A lot of offices have their little pools. Fantasy football verges on lunacy. Players who don't perform get death threats etc. I think high school sports are still focused on football even though lacrosse has become more popular with male and female teams. In high school a lot of people get to be involved since teams are the largest and also support cheerleaders, band etc. Football also has a continuity across levels. Its mostly popular in high school, college and pro. Baseball seems to be pre-high school, high school, pro. College baseball is kind of a break that minor league ball doesn't really fill. Baseball might be #1 in NY area. I go to a lot of HS sports and I don't see too many people at soccer games even when the teams are in immigrant areas where guys are playing pick-up games all over. Their interest hasn't translated to high school games. Basketball interest seems mostly urban and eastern. NBA bores a lot of people. Too many games and highlights look pretty much the same. The last 5 minutes is all you need to watch. It will be interesting to see how high school football survives the contrived hysteria being directed toward it.
This post was edited on 3/29 12:07 PM by ashokan
This post was edited on 3/29 12:07 PM by ashokan
Because football is a manly sport that woman can't touch even if they tried. Football has all the characteristic of what men are made of internally, and is displayed as modern gladiators! A sport that displays these characters of a man is going to always be an attraction to the people its the rush you get when you see them play (priceless)... Go back an look in the Roman days, they played to kill and it wasn't called football either. We just made it safer, somewhat to show strong athleticism in men. I like basketball and baseball, but its just not the same.
People do like football because its men doing men things. That's also a reason some people hate it - and the military along with it. The radical feminists see football as a hub of "masculine hegemony" - a theory that comes out of neo-Marxist ideology. Check out course offerings at any gender studies dept. They no football is too popular to take head on so thats why they are a major faction hyping concussions as a way to cripple football.
Always keep in mind: A) the "tau protein" that gets hyped is also produced by excess drinking, drugs, sugar problems etc. You can think its only related to football to hear media go on and on B) the "studies" cited are small and shallow - especially the one that looks at a few NFL autopsies of guys that also often drank/drugged their faces off C) other studies of high school players show no problems with dementia and other things being used to scare parents. I played ball in HS and college and I don't know any guys with dementia. I'm sure some pro guys could have problems if they had too many hits but to hear the drug addicts and alcoholics like Favre (45 days drug rehab, wrecked a car and got a concussion etc) and Jim McMahon blaming football for their issues is a bit sketchy.
This post was edited on 3/29 2:40 PM by ashokan
Masculinity, the NFL, and Concussions
Always keep in mind: A) the "tau protein" that gets hyped is also produced by excess drinking, drugs, sugar problems etc. You can think its only related to football to hear media go on and on B) the "studies" cited are small and shallow - especially the one that looks at a few NFL autopsies of guys that also often drank/drugged their faces off C) other studies of high school players show no problems with dementia and other things being used to scare parents. I played ball in HS and college and I don't know any guys with dementia. I'm sure some pro guys could have problems if they had too many hits but to hear the drug addicts and alcoholics like Favre (45 days drug rehab, wrecked a car and got a concussion etc) and Jim McMahon blaming football for their issues is a bit sketchy.
This post was edited on 3/29 2:40 PM by ashokan
Masculinity, the NFL, and Concussions
But I hate to say this Ashokan, as painful as it is. Boys to men know what the sport consist of, do it stop them from being in it "hell no" just like we like seeing it they "love" doing it. It's brutal at times, but I hate to say that's what's intriguing about it, you don't know what's going to happen next. Men showing their strength at any cost. It's men doing what they do to win... that's why it's nothing for them to still want to play injured, it's the strength of a man. So are we barbaric by nature because we see it as entertainment? Are we the reason the sport is popular and we spend money to see it... YES!!!!!! Hahahaha
Yes it can be brutal but if played correctly its not as bad as people can think. People think the big pop that makes a guy somersault is the hit that hurts the most when more often its the fatso that falls on your leg in a pile. Hits people don't notice are often the worst ones. The worst hits to my head were knees to the head I got when I was low and someone ran into me. Plays like that don't get noticed.
I will say college is exponentially worse than high school. I hardly saw any guys seriously hurt in HS. A broken arm was the worst. Practices were fun. In college not so much. I saw three guys blow knees out in one game. Curiously the worse the teams you play the more dangerous because bad athletes don't know how to fall as well or go with the flow of the pile. A big tackle with size but who is also a klutz is not only bad to play against but with. I could lay around all day healing from practice in college.
One serious problem with regard to football is the poor teaching of good form. Part of that is due to lack of contact in practice. However I still see guys hitting with their heads down and that's asking for trouble. The neck discs have little protection with a compression hit from top of head. When I was in HS we were pulled out of practice if we hit with our head down. It just became an instinct not to do it
Looking back though, I know more guys with lasting knee/hip problems from doing things like running on roads. Guys who are carpenters, tile setters, masons etc all seem to have physical problems, surgeries, replacement joints etc. Another real problem that gets ignored is the rate of girls hurt in sports. They are much more prone to knee injuries because of their hip alignment. Girls blow ACLs all the time. If I had a daughter playing soccer or a boy playing football I would be more nervous about the girl
This post was edited on 3/29 4:05 PM by ashokan
The Uneven Playing Field
I will say college is exponentially worse than high school. I hardly saw any guys seriously hurt in HS. A broken arm was the worst. Practices were fun. In college not so much. I saw three guys blow knees out in one game. Curiously the worse the teams you play the more dangerous because bad athletes don't know how to fall as well or go with the flow of the pile. A big tackle with size but who is also a klutz is not only bad to play against but with. I could lay around all day healing from practice in college.
One serious problem with regard to football is the poor teaching of good form. Part of that is due to lack of contact in practice. However I still see guys hitting with their heads down and that's asking for trouble. The neck discs have little protection with a compression hit from top of head. When I was in HS we were pulled out of practice if we hit with our head down. It just became an instinct not to do it
Looking back though, I know more guys with lasting knee/hip problems from doing things like running on roads. Guys who are carpenters, tile setters, masons etc all seem to have physical problems, surgeries, replacement joints etc. Another real problem that gets ignored is the rate of girls hurt in sports. They are much more prone to knee injuries because of their hip alignment. Girls blow ACLs all the time. If I had a daughter playing soccer or a boy playing football I would be more nervous about the girl
This post was edited on 3/29 4:05 PM by ashokan
The Uneven Playing Field
Two very interesting articles Ashokan! They complement one another. Take the basic theme of the feminist article and apply it in the second article, and it seems that there's an equal opportunity pressure to "man up" going on in all sports. I read somewhere that competitive cheerleading has higher injury rates than any other sport, but it's unlikely that folks will get up in arms about that one either.
One of the arguments raised in the second article with which I strongly agree is the problem of kids focusing too much on a single sport at a young age. Many of us grew up in an age when the better athletes participated (and lettered) in multiple sports. If there was one thing I would recommend based on that article it would be limiting the amount of time spent in a single sport below college level. It would not be a popular idea among rabid sports fans, but it would be better for the kids. There's no way you can force kids to play in multiple sports, but if you limited the amount of time they are allowed to participate in a single sport, a lot of athletes would naturally lean toward participating in more sports; which apparently would be highly beneficial from a sports medicine perspective.
From what I've seen, Army coaches and players defer to the trainers and doctors regarding participation after injuries, and that's the way it should be. Much as many of us fans would like to see guys like Maples and Baggett out there playing through pain, the US has a lot of investment in those guys that shouldn't be ignored.
One of the arguments raised in the second article with which I strongly agree is the problem of kids focusing too much on a single sport at a young age. Many of us grew up in an age when the better athletes participated (and lettered) in multiple sports. If there was one thing I would recommend based on that article it would be limiting the amount of time spent in a single sport below college level. It would not be a popular idea among rabid sports fans, but it would be better for the kids. There's no way you can force kids to play in multiple sports, but if you limited the amount of time they are allowed to participate in a single sport, a lot of athletes would naturally lean toward participating in more sports; which apparently would be highly beneficial from a sports medicine perspective.
From what I've seen, Army coaches and players defer to the trainers and doctors regarding participation after injuries, and that's the way it should be. Much as many of us fans would like to see guys like Maples and Baggett out there playing through pain, the US has a lot of investment in those guys that shouldn't be ignored.
"One of the arguments raised in the second article with
which I strongly agree is the problem of kids focusing too much on a
single sport at a young age. Many of us grew up in an age when the
better athletes participated (and lettered) in multiple sports."
That's an interesting dilemma. I think its good to play multiple sports but I pay attention to types of sports and main goals. Muscles and nervous systems need a variety of stresses and simulations to develop. A lot of activity people see as muscular is more neurological than they realize. Take doing splits - most people can't do them because their neurological development doesn't allow them to and not so much because of their anatomical limitations. Little kids legs are flexible and then they grow into limitations as they fall into patterns of use. A lot of different activities will round out systems more than just doing the same things over and over.
That said if a kid wants to play football then playing basketball or wrestling can be better than say swimming (which I did - and always had strained groins when football started). I also like the Stanford model of football training and conditioning. They do more stretching and neurological stuff and don't get fixated to heavy weights. They warn NFL scouts not to be fooled if Stanford players don't seem to lift weights as heavy as others. Since Stanford put the new approach in place the number of games players miss because of injury has gone down 87%. Army could probably use something like that.
This post was edited on 3/30 2:49 PM by ashokan
Stanford’s Distinct Training Regimen Redefines Str
which I strongly agree is the problem of kids focusing too much on a
single sport at a young age. Many of us grew up in an age when the
better athletes participated (and lettered) in multiple sports."
That's an interesting dilemma. I think its good to play multiple sports but I pay attention to types of sports and main goals. Muscles and nervous systems need a variety of stresses and simulations to develop. A lot of activity people see as muscular is more neurological than they realize. Take doing splits - most people can't do them because their neurological development doesn't allow them to and not so much because of their anatomical limitations. Little kids legs are flexible and then they grow into limitations as they fall into patterns of use. A lot of different activities will round out systems more than just doing the same things over and over.
That said if a kid wants to play football then playing basketball or wrestling can be better than say swimming (which I did - and always had strained groins when football started). I also like the Stanford model of football training and conditioning. They do more stretching and neurological stuff and don't get fixated to heavy weights. They warn NFL scouts not to be fooled if Stanford players don't seem to lift weights as heavy as others. Since Stanford put the new approach in place the number of games players miss because of injury has gone down 87%. Army could probably use something like that.
This post was edited on 3/30 2:49 PM by ashokan
Stanford’s Distinct Training Regimen Redefines Str
Great points Good, but in all honesty that's just the way of the world when it comes to competing. We (fans) have always had a viking attitude when it comes to supporting the most competitive sport that shows or has more violence. In our world thats greatness, I would as far back as the bible days. The only way I see football not being so dangerous, is change the gear they wear. Take away all the protective things they wear to cushion the blows. Whats the odds of that happening? When i watched guys play football in the park and have teams too, without all the gear they play hard but are more conscious of injuries specially when it comes to hitting or tackling each other.
You talk about Maples & Baggett, what about Bacon, Dixon and Steelman. They all played injured at one time or another, by choice. Like I said its the passion of the game, what can you do about it? How do you tell players (no) when their telling you they can do it, and you know its a game changer if they take them out. We have seen it here plenty of times! But what I respect about Monken, is he beat Florida with 2nd and 3rd stream players all his starters was out injured. Where they do that at! As you spoke on the investment here, it should be that way even if they wasn't here and thats whole problem with football now
"I read somewhere that competitive cheerleading has higher
injury rates than any other sport, but it's unlikely that folks will
get up in arms about that one either. "
Its worth noting that while the media is in hysteria over the dangers of boys playing football the same people driving the hysteria are for putting girls in combat. Indeed the Marines have to set up task forces with 25% women. Imagine Army football having to take on 25% women. There's a degree of unsanity to all this that Freud had a term for lol. I also just saw an article in Atlantic that is blaming high school sports for US education decline (pointing out math success of Asian countries that dont have sports). They completely ignore that HS sports started a loooong time ago and were present for the greatest period of success. Be careful of the new "concern" for male athletes and football because there is poison behind it.
The Case Against High-School Sports
injury rates than any other sport, but it's unlikely that folks will
get up in arms about that one either. "
Its worth noting that while the media is in hysteria over the dangers of boys playing football the same people driving the hysteria are for putting girls in combat. Indeed the Marines have to set up task forces with 25% women. Imagine Army football having to take on 25% women. There's a degree of unsanity to all this that Freud had a term for lol. I also just saw an article in Atlantic that is blaming high school sports for US education decline (pointing out math success of Asian countries that dont have sports). They completely ignore that HS sports started a loooong time ago and were present for the greatest period of success. Be careful of the new "concern" for male athletes and football because there is poison behind it.
The Case Against High-School Sports
I can believe that Ashokan about the cheerleaders, and I get your point. And as you can see I have been trying desperately to sway you off the topic. hahahahahaha you are definitely a meat and potato kind of guy. Its no argument there on how people perceive football over all the other sports. But why do you think people prefer football more over the other sports? When you look at how the WWB has changed over the years,vs to when they first started I'm scared to let my little nieces and nephews watch it. Now that really horrible! My question is why is it still being called wrestling?
"But why do you think people prefer football more over the other sports? "
Because its a HUGE game with lots of aspects to it. People can say football is popular because of the violence but then the NHL should be popular too and its not.
Just look at sports highlights and films. With football highlights on Saturday or Sunday night you don't know what you might get. TDs, INTS, kick returns, big blocks/tackles/sacks, amazing runs etc. Heck even fumbles can be dramatic. All the other sports are kinda weak with highlights, A basketball or baseball game can have some thrilling plays but they all start to look the same. A home run highlight is pretty boring most of the time. Basketball highlights of dunks/blocks/shots become pretty uninteresting at some point. Watching 30 NFL team highlights on Sunday night are a whole lot more interesting than 30 NBA team highlights could be on a Sunday night.
Then you have the size of the game. Having 22 guys run around a 100 yd field with thousands of people cheering is more interesting than watching a pitcher and batter picking at themselves or 12 guys running back and forth inside a gym. Then you have the bands, cheerleaders, flyovers, parades, parachutes etc and a football game is more of a spectacle - and there are only a few games. Hockey starts in October and ends the week before 4th of July. I've already gone through a heat wave or two when hockey ends. Its crazy imo.
Plus people love what they played or have memories of. I look at hockey and it looks foreign to me. I didn't play it and most schools didn't have it. The NHL is full of foreign players that play for other countries at Olympic time. I just cant care about hockey. Now football I grew up with and its part of what defines high school and the fall season. A big part of Army ball is tailgating with the fall leaves. Football ties right in with the changing leaves and the fall harvest feast traditions Other sports don't have anything quite like that. Playoff baseball in October a little bit but how many fall baseball tailgates you been too?
Plus you had a loooong college football tradition long before the pro game. Football grew out of the colleges and all their traditions, highlights of the glory days of youth, veneer of higher learning etc. There's not much that can compete with it in US. Its actually because football is so key to US culture that some are trying to destroy it. Not that it doesn't have some problems that need fixing.
This post was edited on 3/30 8:37 PM by ashokan
Because its a HUGE game with lots of aspects to it. People can say football is popular because of the violence but then the NHL should be popular too and its not.
Just look at sports highlights and films. With football highlights on Saturday or Sunday night you don't know what you might get. TDs, INTS, kick returns, big blocks/tackles/sacks, amazing runs etc. Heck even fumbles can be dramatic. All the other sports are kinda weak with highlights, A basketball or baseball game can have some thrilling plays but they all start to look the same. A home run highlight is pretty boring most of the time. Basketball highlights of dunks/blocks/shots become pretty uninteresting at some point. Watching 30 NFL team highlights on Sunday night are a whole lot more interesting than 30 NBA team highlights could be on a Sunday night.
Then you have the size of the game. Having 22 guys run around a 100 yd field with thousands of people cheering is more interesting than watching a pitcher and batter picking at themselves or 12 guys running back and forth inside a gym. Then you have the bands, cheerleaders, flyovers, parades, parachutes etc and a football game is more of a spectacle - and there are only a few games. Hockey starts in October and ends the week before 4th of July. I've already gone through a heat wave or two when hockey ends. Its crazy imo.
Plus people love what they played or have memories of. I look at hockey and it looks foreign to me. I didn't play it and most schools didn't have it. The NHL is full of foreign players that play for other countries at Olympic time. I just cant care about hockey. Now football I grew up with and its part of what defines high school and the fall season. A big part of Army ball is tailgating with the fall leaves. Football ties right in with the changing leaves and the fall harvest feast traditions Other sports don't have anything quite like that. Playoff baseball in October a little bit but how many fall baseball tailgates you been too?
Plus you had a loooong college football tradition long before the pro game. Football grew out of the colleges and all their traditions, highlights of the glory days of youth, veneer of higher learning etc. There's not much that can compete with it in US. Its actually because football is so key to US culture that some are trying to destroy it. Not that it doesn't have some problems that need fixing.
This post was edited on 3/30 8:37 PM by ashokan
Sure isn't baseball and there are currently 6 teams in MLB that don't even have an African American player. Unbelievable how the sport of baseball has been rejected by one particular group, but I'm not surprised.
