OT: West Point accuses more than 70 cadets of cheating in worst academic scandal in nearly 45 years
- Thread starter TheNewBlackKnights09
- Start date
I am clearly an "Old Grad". I do not understand why Cadets who commit Honor Violations are not separated from the Academy after their guilt is legitimately determined.
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I have heard quite a few success stories as a result of the rehabilitation process (don't known the official term).
I believe that a well-designed rehab program is a huge benefit to West Point and to the Army.
I believe that a well-designed rehab program is a huge benefit to West Point and to the Army.
I agree with you, and from what I am told, this was a policy put into effect by General Caslen
I just heard that it is 17 football players that have been caught in this scandal. I don't know the details, but if they cheated then they cheated and should be separated.
Got a Supe email today, said the Honor Committee is still working thru this and other cases. May take until April to resolve.
Appears that 55 of the 72 plebes and one yearling were on Corps Squad or Club Sports; 24 being members of Army Football team (remember team is over 160 Cadets) and that 17 are still on roster.
As Onthehudson stated above; process is different now where Supe has much discretion to keep Cadets from the old found for honor and separated of my Cadet days.
Supe did suspend a policy this Fall that had a Cadet being taken off an athletic team while under an honor investigation. That left these 17 or 24 to continue being on the team and maybe playing. This was probably a reasonable decision at the time and supported by HQDA, but looks like it favored football team. I can see Navy and Air Force criticizing this; though we have seen worse from AFA.
Still, what a time for this bad news to come out; not getting ahead of this back in September makes it appear that USMA is trying to hide something. We vets know there is a nugget of truth to that, but also know the need to investigate first and protect individuals rights.
Appears that 55 of the 72 plebes and one yearling were on Corps Squad or Club Sports; 24 being members of Army Football team (remember team is over 160 Cadets) and that 17 are still on roster.
As Onthehudson stated above; process is different now where Supe has much discretion to keep Cadets from the old found for honor and separated of my Cadet days.
Supe did suspend a policy this Fall that had a Cadet being taken off an athletic team while under an honor investigation. That left these 17 or 24 to continue being on the team and maybe playing. This was probably a reasonable decision at the time and supported by HQDA, but looks like it favored football team. I can see Navy and Air Force criticizing this; though we have seen worse from AFA.
Still, what a time for this bad news to come out; not getting ahead of this back in September makes it appear that USMA is trying to hide something. We vets know there is a nugget of truth to that, but also know the need to investigate first and protect individuals rights.
I won't pass judgement until I know more, but this is embarrassing for the academy and for the football program as well. Clearly, Coach Monken knew this, which makes me wonder why he was promoting this particular team as the best that he has coached. SMH
The story seems to try to pin this in the football team. These were cadets from various sports and clubs that were involved. Football seems to be the easy target because they have seen success in a very tough and trying year. The rest of the team and cadets deserve better!
Go Army-Beat WVU!
Go Army-Beat WVU!
For whatever my two cents are worth, I’m in favor of letting the process play itself out. I know the discretion thing was put in place a while ago and I was privileged to be on a Zoom call with Caslen a few weeks ago where he explained the process and how it actually benefitted not only the individuals but the Corps and Army in the long run. The mentorship aspect and probationary period in particular are good ideas and also promote kids self reporting, which I believe is honorable.
That being said, once April rolls around, and the investigations are done, whatever Class of 2023 football players (and other athletes) are found guilty of cheating, I hope part of their probation is that their Corps Squad days at Army are over. While I’m not for immediate expulsion especially if a kid self reports and learns through the mentorship program what honorable living looks like, I do think the punishment for cheating should be serious and costly.
There is clearly a culture problem at USMA and on the football team (at least with the class of 2023) that needs to be straightened out.
The thing is, if JM gets in trouble at all, he’ll just go get a higher paying job elsewhere so he’s not really at risk for the lack of leadership.
This is also a bad look for the upperclassmen who are supposed to be the leaders (not just on the team, but in the Corps as well).
Timing of this kind of news is never good, but I agree that it was weak leadership to not get ahead of this problem when it happened and put out our own statement this summer.
Let’s learn from it and get better as a team and academy.
Beat WVU!!
That being said, once April rolls around, and the investigations are done, whatever Class of 2023 football players (and other athletes) are found guilty of cheating, I hope part of their probation is that their Corps Squad days at Army are over. While I’m not for immediate expulsion especially if a kid self reports and learns through the mentorship program what honorable living looks like, I do think the punishment for cheating should be serious and costly.
There is clearly a culture problem at USMA and on the football team (at least with the class of 2023) that needs to be straightened out.
The thing is, if JM gets in trouble at all, he’ll just go get a higher paying job elsewhere so he’s not really at risk for the lack of leadership.
This is also a bad look for the upperclassmen who are supposed to be the leaders (not just on the team, but in the Corps as well).
Timing of this kind of news is never good, but I agree that it was weak leadership to not get ahead of this problem when it happened and put out our own statement this summer.
Let’s learn from it and get better as a team and academy.
Beat WVU!!
Hard to lead when you’re at home far away from The Corps & daily routine/mentorship etc...
Do agree consequences should have a real bite...
Do agree consequences should have a real bite...
I do not think that transgressions by 18 year old cadets should have a "one size fits all" solution.
People, especially young people, make mistakes. A well-designed education/rehabilitation program with willing participants and trained leaders/mentors/educators can lead to outstanding outcomes.
As for the Army, I think that having young officers who know that their soldiers will make mistakes and there are options other than discharge when it comes to handling those mistakes is a good thing.
