Maples and Baggett

[jerseyboy63]

WHERE ARE MAPLES AND BAGGETT???

Did this staff forget the 2 studs they have (not including Dixon) in the backfield? If you want to win some games, give the ball to your horses. I hate the excuse that the cupboard is bare...there are 3 studs left in the backfield and if there was any sort of play calling, we could have 3-1,000 yard rushers this year. The talent is there on offense. Not giving the ball to them is the coaches fault. Granted the QB will read the defense, but if they key on Dixon, then there are other options. It is mind boggling to me how all this talent will go to waste and next year, with everyone graduating, there will be no one in the backfield. The offense has regressed and not because of talent. Next year and probably in the next 10 years, Army will not have this talent running the ball. Against a joke of a Kent St team, Baggett gets 2 carries and Maples 3. Maples didn't even play against Rice. What is the deal??

 

[Bulletproof09]

Originally posted by jerseyboy63:

WHERE ARE MAPLES AND BAGGETT???

Did this staff forget the 2 studs they have (not including Dixon) in the backfield? If you want to win some games, give the ball to your horses. I hate the excuse that the cupboard is bare...there are 3 studs left in the backfield and if there was any sort of play calling, we could have 3-1,000 yard rushers this year. The talent is there on offense. Not giving the ball to them is the coaches fault. Granted the QB will read the defense, but if they key on Dixon, then there are other options. It is mind boggling to me how all this talent will go to waste and next year, with everyone graduating, there will be no one in the backfield. The offense has regressed and not because of talent. Next year and probably in the next 10 years, Army will not have this talent running the ball. Against a joke of a Kent St team, Baggett gets 2 carries and Maples 3. Maples didn't even play against Rice. What is the deal??

That's what I been saying all season....

 

[ashokan]

Sal Interdonato was asked about the RBs by Ball St media


"Q: It seems weird, but this team has two former 1,100-yard backs who are their No. 4 and 5 rushers. How have their roles changed in the scheme?

Sal: Monken has said the fullback will get the majority of the backfield's carries in his offense. Terry Baggett and Raymond Maples' touches have come mostly on pitch plays and tosses. Defenses have taken away or tried to take away the outside runs from Army."


Steelman was better at fakes and pitches than the current crop of QBs who are pretty insipid. Army needs a decent QB in the worst way. Add to that the team blocking has been atrocious.


" You've got to be able to run the ball and block people. We had too many negative plays when we couldn't afford them today."

"When you don't block and sustain blocks and you don't get off blocks on defense and you don't tackle and you don't cover guys on pass plays, it's hard to win,"

Coach Monken on Army's inability to execute fundamentals
This post was edited on 10/20 12:34 AM by ashokan

Scouting Army - Sal Interdonato

 

[Bulletproof09]

Originally posted by ashokan:

Sal Interdonato was asked about the RBs by Ball St media


"Q: It seems weird, but this team has two former 1,100-yard backs who are their No. 4 and 5 rushers. How have their roles changed in the scheme?

Sal: Monken has said the fullback will get the majority of the backfield's carries in his offense. Terry Baggett and Raymond Maples' touches have come mostly on pitch plays and tosses. Defenses have taken away or tried to take away the outside runs from Army."


Steelman was better at fakes and pitches than the current crop of QBs who are pretty insipid. Army needs a decent QB in the worst way. Add to that the team blocking has been atrocious.


" You've got to be able to run the ball and block people. We had too many negative plays when we couldn't afford them today."

"When you don't block and sustain blocks and you don't get off blocks on defense and you don't tackle and you don't cover guys on pass plays, it's hard to win,"

Coach Monken on Army's inability to execute fundamentals
This post was edited on 10/20 12:34 AM by ashokan

Right play calling! The thing is we see other players doing their roles, ok! So these coaches see it better that Terry and Maples should be out there blocking more then running the ball, cause the other players cant block? Dam!

This post was edited on 10/20 5:55 AM by Bulletproof09

 

[goodknight65]

Originally posted by ashokan:

Sal Interdonato was asked about the RBs by Ball St media


"Q: It seems weird, but this team has two former 1,100-yard backs who are their No. 4 and 5 rushers. How have their roles changed in the scheme?

Sal: Monken has said the fullback will get the majority of the backfield's carries in his offense. Terry Baggett and Raymond Maples' touches have come mostly on pitch plays and tosses. Defenses have taken away or tried to take away the outside runs from Army."


Steelman was better at fakes and pitches than the current crop of QBs who are pretty insipid. Army needs a decent QB in the worst way. Add to that the team blocking has been atrocious.


" You've got to be able to run the ball and block people. We had too many negative plays when we couldn't afford them today."

"When you don't block and sustain blocks and you don't get off blocks on defense and you don't tackle and you don't cover guys on pass plays, it's hard to win,"

Coach Monken on Army's inability to execute fundamentals
This post was edited on 10/20 12:34 AM by ashokan

Ashokan,

A couple of comments in mild rebuttal. Steelman was running a different version of the offense, which makes comparisons of him with the current quarterbacks problematic. Santiago ran the offense differently last year under Ellerson than he does the Monken offense, and Baggett got 1200 yards last season, while Santiago and Schurr have already exceeded their modest rushing stats from last season. That, to me, suggests that the distribution of carries by the QBs versus the SBs is more a factor of system changes than personnel. Angel is keeping the ball more because that's what Monken and Davis are asking him to do. He had no problem getting the ball to Baggett last year. If anything, I thought Steelman held onto the ball more often than necessary, which led to his 1200 yard rushing season as a senior. No doubt, Steelman would be getting his fair share of carries in the Monken system as well, and we can only speculate on how much more he'd be pitching to the SBs. Like Angel, he was inclined to trust himself with the ball more often than not.

The change of systems does not account for why we've seen so much of the yearling Walker out on the field in key situations, where his lack of experience has been costly. With Baggett, Maples, Turrentine, and Giovanelli all available, I can't understand why Walker was receiving the pitch he fumbled on that critical play against WF. I have no real objections to Giovanelli being the starting T-back as he's earned it from previous play and practice, but I find it more difficult to understand why Walker is the #2 at T-back while Maples, Baggett, and Turrentine are all vying for playing time at A-Back. Surely one of them is capable of playing the T-back spot. I know that the T-back is more of a receiver than the A-back, but Maples has been used more often as a receiver than Walker; so why aren't we seeing more of him in the games?

The blocking has been atrocious to be sure, but I can't help but think that all the changes in the OL since the start of the season aren't contributing to a lot of those missed assignments. Army started the same 5 guys on the OL all 12 games last year, and though they were smaller, they executed their blocking assignments much better than the current group. That was one unit on the team that few fans had any real complaints about, other than their preconceived notions that they were too small, and therefore couldn't be as effective. Monken and Davis have been swapping out linemen like it was musical chairs this year, and only Hugenberg has started all 7 games. Hobbs was converted from an OL to a TE and then back again. Moreau was switched from starting RG to backup for Shumaker at LG. Monken started two plebes last game, even though the original starters were available and played in the game. There's just too much turmoil on the OL for it to be an effective unit this season. Spring practice and pre-season are the time for experimenting, not the middle of the season.

 

[jerseyboy63]

THANK YOU!! The argument about the OL couldn't be stated any better. Despite the apparent lack of size, the OL was much better last year and therefore the running game was much better. It doesn't help that Powis quit though, but replacing a 245lb Kime with a bigger lineman has not helped despite the larger lineman

 

[ashokan]

I understand about lineman working better as a unit. However people probably better get used to OL rotating in and out of games because that's what Navy does to keep lineman fresher throught the game. Monken is more of a Navy style coach rather than an Ellerson option coach. That's also why the halfbacks won't be seeing the kind of action they saw under Ellerson. Like Navy, Monken wants his FBs and QBs to have more of the carries. That cuts down on fumbles. Navy halfbacks often only get 350-500 yards a year. If you want to understand Monken's option/execution look at Navy and not Ellerson's option/execution. Ellerson's pitches and misdirections are liabilities in Monken's eyes.

Navy plans to use seven offensive lineman in most

 

[Bulletproof09]

Originally posted by ashokan:

I understand about lineman working better as a unit. However people probably better get used to OL rotating in and out of games because that's what Navy does to keep lineman fresher throught the game. Monken is more of a Navy style coach rather than an Ellerson option coach. That's also why the halfbacks won't be seeing the kind of action they saw under Ellerson. Like Navy, Monken wants his FBs and QBs to have more of the carries. That cuts down on fumbles. Navy halfbacks often only get 350-500 yards a year. If you want to understand Monken's option/execution look at Navy and not Ellerson's option/execution. Ellerson's pitches and misdirections are liabilities in Monken's eyes.

The only problem is we don't have the kind of players Navy have! As you can see!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ashokan]

"The only problem is we don't have the kind of players Navy have! As you can see!!!!!!!!!!!"


I've seen that the last 15+ years. What's another 2 or 3 win season at this point? I wasn't expecting anything miraculous from Monken this year. Monken did great at Georgia Southern but they graduated substantially less than half their players. Now a lot more is stacked against Monken. But since he knows the deal from Navy years I am sure he understands what kind of tiger he has by the tail, and how he intends to tame it. Ellerson was tickled to come here. Monken was questioning his own sanity - the more insightful reaction lol. Monken is going to lay the groundwork over again and push hard. He understood he had to save Army football when he was asked to take the job. Army was either going to get a fool or a hero to take the job. I think they got the latter but it will take time. For this season Army can still get lucky somewhere. There is usually one great win in the seasonal wreckage. I don't think Buffalo or Ball St was that kind of win. Maybe there is still a rabbit in the hat
This post was edited on 10/21 11:47 PM by ashokan

 

[BlackGoldGray]

Originally posted by jerseyboy63:
THANK YOU!! The argument about the OL couldn't be stated any better. Despite the apparent lack of size, the OL was much better last year and therefore the running game was much better. It doesn't help that Powis quit though, but replacing a 245lb Kime with a bigger lineman has not helped despite the larger lineman

Quit is the operative word when it comes to Powis, but that's another subject for another time!

 

[goodknight65]

Originally posted by ashokan:

I understand about lineman working better as a unit. However people probably better get used to OL rotating in and out of games because that's what Navy does to keep lineman fresher throught the game. Monken is more of a Navy style coach rather than an Ellerson option coach.

There are a few important differences in what is described in the Navy article and what we've seen happening with the Army line this year:

1) Navy has started the same 5 offensive linemen in 5 of its 7 games this year: Heap (Jr), Binns (Sr), Fleming (Sr), Zusek (Sr), and Gaston (Jr). The only changes in the starting lineup were Ryder (Jr) for Fleming in the first game and then Heap moving from tackle to center to start the VMI game when it appears that Ryder and Fleming were not available (neither listed as participating) and in that game, Copeland (So) was moved up from Heap's understudy to start. For the most part, the starting lineup has been quite stabile. The total number of OLs who have started for Navy is 7, with two of them only having 1 start each. That's quite a contrast to Army where we've had a different starting lineup in each of the last 4 games.

2) The number of actual substitutions in the Navy offensive line has been quite limited (based on my review of participation lists). There's no way to tell how much time each had and who they substituted for, but there were only two OL subs in the OSU and Temple games: Fleming and Ryder subbing for one another, and Tamburello (probably at either or both guard positions). All told, only 4 non-starters have participated as OLs in any games this season: Ryder (Jr C 6 games), Tamburello (Jr OG 7 games), Greene (Jr LT 2 games), and Otto (Sr OG 4 games). I may have missed some sub, but the number of OLs who have actually played for Navy this year is considerably fewer than have played for Army, not even considering the offensive linemen at Army who only play on special teams.

3) The Navy starting OLs are all juniors and seniors who have played in the same system at least two full years. Only one of the substitutes (Copeland) is a sophomore, and none are plebes. Most of them have had ample time to master their own starting position assignments well, and in some cases have had ample opportunity to cross train in another position.

Contrast this with the Army situation, where Monken and Davis have had only 1 OL (Hugenberg) start all 7 games and two others who started 6 (Shumaker and McDonald), had two plebes starting against Kent State, and have shuffled Hobbs from OL to TE and then back to OL during the pre-season, while trying to learn blocking assignments in a new system, and it's pretty easy to understand why there have been so many missed blocking assignments.

Navy started with substantially more experience and cohesion on their OL this season, and that experience level and cohesion has increased through playing together as a unit, which has not been the case at Army this year.

BTW, the practice of rotating a limited number of OLs to keep them fresh is not new at Army. Hugenberg, Bennett, and Rainey played all 12 games as reserves in 2013. McDonald and Szott saw more limited action.

 

[Bulletproof09]

This is my next question, if Monken doesnt like running the slots, just the QB and FB, why would any 2 to 4 star backs come here to play? I don't see it! What am I missing here?

This post was edited on 10/22 12:51 PM by Bulletproof09

 

[Bulletproof09]

If their paying attention to what's happening now with our strong RBs,what in God's name would convince them to come here?

 

[ccsblackknights]

Originally posted by Bulletproof09:
If their paying attention to what's happening now with our strong RBs,what in God's name would convince them to come here?

Just because your friend/relative is not getting the hype anymore, don't start knocking prospects who are considering us as an option.

 

[Bulletproof09]

Originally posted by ccsblackknights:

Originally posted by Bulletproof09:
If their paying attention to what's happening now with our strong RBs,what in God's name would convince them to come here?

Just because your friend/relative is not getting the hype anymore, don't start knocking prospects who are considering us as an option.

I'm really just asking the question! I'm not knocking anyone, I really want to know. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or nothing. What use do Monken have for him, 3 star RBs are known to get more then 5 to 6 carries a game.....how will he fit the model? BTW one has nothing to do with the other, I just want to know really. It's a legitimate question!

 

[Bulletproof09]

LET THE HORSES OUT THE STABLE, THEY BEEN BUCKING HALF THE SEASON!!!!!

GO ARMY BEAT AF

 

[boongoon]

AMEN. I fully expected to have two maybe three 1000 yards rushers before this season ended!!

 

[goodknight65]

Originally posted by boongoon:
AMEN. I fully expected to have two maybe three 1000 yards rushers before this season ended!!

We may still have two, but it will more likely be Dixon and Santiago, assuming Santiago continues to be the starter. Dixon is definitely on pace to break 1000 yards, and Santiago would be if he'd been in more. Collectively, Santiago and Schurr have close to 800 yards rushing. That's a little more than Steelman had after 7 games in 2012. Expecting to have 3 might have been stretching it, especially with Baggett, Maples, and Giovanelli sharing time.